The Viking 150 Release - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T06:21:08Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/the-viking-150-release?feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe base for 150 is honda civ…tag:zenith.aero,2021-04-21:2606393:Comment:8331572021-04-21T21:53:55.515ZTom Hankamhttps://zenith.aero/profile/TomHankamp
<p>The base for 150 is honda civic 1.8 that has been around for 20 years, every year with little more </p>
<p>RPM and little tweaks increasing HP, ex 2014 was 140 Hp, now more RPM and 150 HP ! <br/>Tomcatrv4 building 701 with 2013 1.8. Civic 140 Hp</p>
<p>The base for 150 is honda civic 1.8 that has been around for 20 years, every year with little more </p>
<p>RPM and little tweaks increasing HP, ex 2014 was 140 Hp, now more RPM and 150 HP ! <br/>Tomcatrv4 building 701 with 2013 1.8. Civic 140 Hp</p> Thanks, Jan.tag:zenith.aero,2021-04-21:2606393:Comment:8330302021-04-21T03:25:29.681ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>Thanks, Jan.</p>
<p>Thanks, Jan.</p> Hey Bob, sorry I'm just now g…tag:zenith.aero,2021-04-20:2606393:Comment:8330872021-04-20T23:35:35.592ZJan Eggenfellnerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JanEggenfellner
<p>Hey Bob, sorry I'm just now getting to this - I didn't even see this post. </p>
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<p>The direct injection is going to be more fuel efficient and start slightly easier (because of the way the fuel is sprayed direct) that really is the biggest difference between the two for how we use the engine. We still have a preference to the direct injection - but any MODERN fuel injection is great. </p>
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<p>Also, the gentleman who installed the 150 HP - replaced the Viking 110 not the 130.…</p>
<p>Hey Bob, sorry I'm just now getting to this - I didn't even see this post. </p>
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<p>The direct injection is going to be more fuel efficient and start slightly easier (because of the way the fuel is sprayed direct) that really is the biggest difference between the two for how we use the engine. We still have a preference to the direct injection - but any MODERN fuel injection is great. </p>
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<p>Also, the gentleman who installed the 150 HP - replaced the Viking 110 not the 130. We wouldn't suggest someone change out the 130 for the 150 if installed it would be unnecessary. </p>
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<p>Where the 150 comes into play is giving that extra bit of power for those that want it for slightly better take of performance and more power, high density altitudes would benefit as well. </p>
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<p>The 150 HP massively outperforms the 110 as does the 130 HP. </p>
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<p>The reality is it filled our lineup for HP between the 130 and the 195T. We really liked the reinforced oil pan in the 1.8 L (150 HP engine) and the fact they have been using this engine for over a decade. It also offered people to have the options between port and direct injection depending on their wants/preference. </p>
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<p>The 150 HP did wind up being in prototype about 13 lbs more. In mass production we should lessen that some as time passes. </p>
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<p>We offer the full FWF, and now we have it on the STOL - a Cozy - a Murphy Rebel and also being installed on an S21 in a few months - and shipping to another STOL in a month or so. It is our same tried and true products onto a new engine.</p>
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<p>Also, we do not monitor the Zenith forum - but our email is the best place to reach us and I can always answer your questions close to immediate, or a phone call. In all the places to monitor these days forums seem to be less active. </p>
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<p>Ultimately - just a new option and this one seemed like a great option for us :) It would seem if you don't need more HP, Super short field operation, floats or at a high density altitude than I would suggest doing the 130. </p>
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<p>-Alissa</p> They may not mention performa…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-23:2606393:Comment:8297372021-03-23T04:23:13.277ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>They may not mention performance in the two new videos Viking just put out, but it sure looks like that 750 STOL gets off the ground awfully fast. I have absolutely nothing against STOL performance, but I'm more interested in finding out how cruise numbers changed. Since that plane had a 130 on it previously, it's a perfect candidate to compare performance numbers with to gauge the differences the 150 will give over the 130. Practically salivating waiting for those. LOL!</p>
<p>They may not mention performance in the two new videos Viking just put out, but it sure looks like that 750 STOL gets off the ground awfully fast. I have absolutely nothing against STOL performance, but I'm more interested in finding out how cruise numbers changed. Since that plane had a 130 on it previously, it's a perfect candidate to compare performance numbers with to gauge the differences the 150 will give over the 130. Practically salivating waiting for those. LOL!</p> Yep, and I wish I knew about…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-23:2606393:Comment:8299572021-03-23T04:12:02.498ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>Yep, and I wish I knew about the Cruzer before I bought the STOL kit. Stinks being kept in the dark, but you know what they say about hindsight being 20/20.</p>
<p>Yep, and I wish I knew about the Cruzer before I bought the STOL kit. Stinks being kept in the dark, but you know what they say about hindsight being 20/20.</p> Viking has posted two new vid…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-22:2606393:Comment:8299532021-03-22T23:34:58.382ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>Viking has posted two new videos on the 150. The first is a new installation on a 750 STOL (presumably the first), but there's no accompanying text or narration:</p>
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<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7BKWRgIuk" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7BKWRgIuk</a></p>
<p><br></br>And there's a new, detailed video on the installation. Viking does such great work on their detailed videos.…</p>
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<p>Viking has posted two new videos on the 150. The first is a new installation on a 750 STOL (presumably the first), but there's no accompanying text or narration:</p>
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<p><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7BKWRgIuk" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO7BKWRgIuk</a></p>
<p><br/>And there's a new, detailed video on the installation. Viking does such great work on their detailed videos.</p>
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<p><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uzztFxSBdU" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uzztFxSBdU</a></p>
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<p>Still hoping to hear more on performance.</p>
<p></p> I wish I knew about the 150 b…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-22:2606393:Comment:8299472021-03-22T22:25:08.826ZKeith Thomashttps://zenith.aero/profile/KeithThomas
<p>I wish I knew about the 150 before I bought my 130, that is still sitting on the engine stand.</p>
<p>I wish I knew about the 150 before I bought my 130, that is still sitting on the engine stand.</p> Yeah, I thought of that. But…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-20:2606393:Comment:8294112021-03-20T00:22:20.529ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>Yeah, I thought of that. But with the time it takes for stuff like that to filter from the automotive world to aviation, we probably wouldn't see it for some time. Although, you have to admit Jan was pretty quick to recognize the potential in the new engine and create the 150. That's another thing I like about Viking. They're always looking to improve.</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought of that. But with the time it takes for stuff like that to filter from the automotive world to aviation, we probably wouldn't see it for some time. Although, you have to admit Jan was pretty quick to recognize the potential in the new engine and create the 150. That's another thing I like about Viking. They're always looking to improve.</p> Now if Honda had done what fo…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-20:2606393:Comment:8295572021-03-20T00:13:28.764ZKeith Thomashttps://zenith.aero/profile/KeithThomas
<p>Now if Honda had done what ford did and mix the two technologies, we'd have the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>Now if Honda had done what ford did and mix the two technologies, we'd have the best of both worlds.</p> That explains quite a bit. Th…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-20:2606393:Comment:8294082021-03-20T00:10:17.483ZBob Simmonshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobSimmons
<p>That explains quite a bit. Thanks, Keith. I'd still like to hear this from an aircraft perspective rather than automotive. We all know things from the automative world don't necessarily apply to aircraft operations, or don't apply in the same way. For instance, since aircraft operate at a continuous high setting, fuel efficiency is an entirely different matter than in the automotive world. Temperatures are different, etc., etc. You get the idea. I was kind of hoping Jan or someone similar…</p>
<p>That explains quite a bit. Thanks, Keith. I'd still like to hear this from an aircraft perspective rather than automotive. We all know things from the automative world don't necessarily apply to aircraft operations, or don't apply in the same way. For instance, since aircraft operate at a continuous high setting, fuel efficiency is an entirely different matter than in the automotive world. Temperatures are different, etc., etc. You get the idea. I was kind of hoping Jan or someone similar would chime in. The video seems to make the pros and cons of both injection methods balance out fairly well. Direct injection appears to be more efficient, but port injection keeps the valves cleaner. No apparently clear overall winner there.</p>
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<p>The 150 is higher priced than the 130, but what do I get for that extra money and extra five pounds? Obviously there's extra horsepower, but what difference could someone reasonably expect to get with that extra horsepower on a 750 STOL? That's where we have to have more information to make our decisions. Would there be a 2 MPH difference in cruise, or would there be more? What difference would there be in STOL performance? Torque? Those are the kind of questions we need answers to before we can reliably determine if the 150 represents the value for money to justify the extra cost in our various individual circumstances. If the higher horsepower is essentially the only appreciable reason for the higher price, we need to have at least some idea what those extra ponies are going to do for us in our individual circumstances. An extra 6 MPH in cruise on my 750 STOL would be far more significant to me than 2 MPH.</p>
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<p>In this video, the fuel efficiency and valve cleanliness seem to make the differences between the different methods of fuel injection very minor, if not essentially irrelevant. Jan has made comments that the 150 is built more stoutly than the 130, but what differences are we likely to see based on that stronger construction? Are there failures or other factors in the 130 that the 150 construction might minimize or cure? Are the TBO numbers better, or is the higher strength just a higher comfort factor?</p>
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<p>Basically we need someone to 'sell' this engine to us. Give us the information we need to see the advantages of the new engine over the 130. Let us have what we need to determine if this engine is a good fit for us. I myself for instance, would love to have the extra horsepower, but I don't really know what difference that horsepower will make on my plane. And would that difference be enough for me to decide the new engine is worth the extra price? What makes it worth the extra money? I know some of this has to be subjective, and you can't accurately determine what difference the 150 would make on a specific aircraft until you actually try it on that model of aircraft. But at least some educated guesses on what we might expect to see would be nice before we spend thousands of extra dollars. I'm not faulting Jan or anyone else at Viking. I know they're incredibly busy right now with everything they've got going on. I'm just rapidly approaching a decision point for my engine, and I'd love to be one of the first buyers of the 150. I just can't justify that much money on what is essentially an unknown at this point. I'm quite aware this might turn out to be something I just have to try in order to get the final answers, because there's no other way for anyone to know without actually doing it. But I'd at least like to see some sort of mention or discussion of these matters before taking that big of a leap of faith. If there's no way to adequately answer my questions, then please say so. Obviously I won't like it, but at least I'd know that some thought has been given to it.</p>
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<p>I apologize if I'm sounding too demanding or being too nit-picky. This vacuum of silence is just incredibly frustrating to me because of the point I'm at in my decision making process. I'm just scared of making a multi-thousand dollar mistake due to lack of information. And knowing my luck, six months after I make my order, they'll announce a new engine with hybrid injection like that discussed in the video.</p>