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scratch built first part
Hi Group,
I intend to build a 750 from plans. Just formed my first (sacrificial) rudder nose rib and it turned out poorly. I ended up with a small crack and some wrinkles at the nose. Also, the flutes are quite uneven. I used a dead blow hammer and then a wood mallet for the final blows. I used some fluting pliers to initiate crimps and a hammer handle as well as 4" socket extension for final forming of the crimps. It seemed like neither the hammer nor extension got into my reliefs in the form blocks very deep. Does any body have any advice on techniques to help me improve?
I intend to build a 750 from plans. Just formed my first (sacrificial) rudder nose rib and it turned out poorly. I ended up with a small crack and some wrinkles at the nose. Also, the flutes are quite uneven. I used a dead blow hammer and then a wood mallet for the final blows. I used some fluting pliers to initiate crimps and a hammer handle as well as 4" socket extension for final forming of the crimps. It seemed like neither the hammer nor extension got into my reliefs in the form blocks very deep. Does any body have any advice on techniques to help me improve?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Pelland on
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DJ,
Each and every scratch builder, will have his very own " best way " along with tips that might or might not apply to you. The very best recommendation I can make, is to get in touch with Jon Croke, from " Homebuilt-HELP.com ", and order one of his video's called " MetalWorking101 with Rudder Workshop ". It is a must read for anyone starting out and building from scratch. Every procedure is explained in detail, and everything that you will learn, is applicable to the rest of the aircraft. A very small investement, for a lot of knowledge.
Robert Pelland
The 701&750 Scratch
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Permalink Reply by Chris Lewis on
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I second the 101 video suggestion. I bought this video at the start of my project and have made some perfect parts following Mark's guidance.
Chris Lewis
CH750 Semi-scratch Builder
Seattle
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Permalink Reply by Kevin McCune on
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I'll 3rd the metal Working 101 DVD :^)
Remember that the form block has an 8 degree or so bevel to it, for spring back, your finished rib flanges WILL NOT lay against it, because they "spring back".That said, I use the handle of a small ball peen hammer, close to the hammer hear. The handle taper and allows you to get the deepest part of the flute and the widest part also. Over working this area will form cracks, so be careful. The nose portion of the ribs can be difficult, I scrapped a few at least. But its do-able, just remember that this is fun and inexpensive too.
Kevin
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Permalink Reply by Ken Potts on
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I'm a new scratch builder too and I'm in a similar predicament. John Croke's video is a good help. For the wrinkles around the nose - Measure the height of the flange at the front. The Zenith standards say it should be a minimum of 3mm and when I was wrinkling that area my flange was too big.
I work the nose portion over a little at a time with a hard rubber hammer and chase after any high spots that start to form by lightly tapping with a plastic round-faced hammer (I don't know what the original purpose of this hammer is).
So far I've got the sharp curves down pat - I'm struggling with getting the wider parts of the flange to cooperate.
I should mention that I haven't made the part you're making - I started with a rudder kit and now I'm building the horizontal stabilizer from scratch, so the curve you're trying to make is tighter than the ones I've done.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Townsend on
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The DVD that everyone is referring to is not Metalworking 101,that video is just building the rudder from kit parts. very useful and a good buy to have on hand.The video everyone is referring to is Scratch Building Basics. if your planning on building from plans it it quite useful, should save the average person 2 years of learning. I have donated my time to the video and Jon, as a scratch builder myself I just wanted people to have a head start I did not have.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation
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After reviewing my CD's, I apologize, and stand corrected.
Scratch Building Basic's starring Mark and Mr. Sock was the video I was referring to when I mistakenly typed Matalworking 101. Sorry for any confusion it might have caused.
Robert
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OK your right, but I know that Sock Puppet told you the answer!!! :^)
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Permalink Reply by Ken Talarico on
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If you heat the tip of the rib blank with a torch (propane is fine) it will soften the metal and help you with forming it around the block. Make some marks at the tip of the blank with a sharpie and heat it until the marks disappear. That should be enough to soften it for forming. It work hardens as you form it. I got this tip from an A&P with IA. He's pretty sharp. Also I made a pair of fluting pliers after seeing them on the internet. Here's the link. They are made with JB weld so you don't need a welder. They work great and take a short time to build. Look about halfway down the page.... http://zodiacbuilder.tripod.com/ribforming.htm I too am scratch building. I have learned a TON from others. Keep at it and it will all work out! Have fun. Also, if you are an EAA member, the homebuilder help section has a number of video sections about forming ribs from scratch.
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Permalink Reply by Chumphol Sirinavin on
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Smoothen and round off the tips of a small plier and use it to smooth out the wrinkles (on the nose, mostly) . Before the wrinkles develop in to sharp folds and cracks, stop and smoothen them out with the plier. Do not make hard whacks or dead blows, but rather make repetitive soft taps. In the beginning I noted that a stick of soft wood worked best. Later, my wrist learned the trick and I could use many hammering tools for the same effect. I suggest that you start with flaperon nose riibs for small practices.
If you have good internet connection, EAA shows how to do it for free 24 hours a day at http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html.
Google EAA Video Player, click on Homebuilders tab, and then Sheet Metals. There are 6 parts for making sheet metal ribs. I find all videos valuable to homebuilding.
If this will help your feelings, I myself have made a number of cracked ribs collected in a cardboard box.
Set in a good mood before tapping aluminum.
Champ
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DJ,
After watching the making of wing nose rib on EAA Video Player, I believe your rudder nose rib, cracked up or not, is not a waste. Take a good look at the nose rib in picture.
At the cracked nose, you may smoothen it, stop drill at the crack, or simply cut it off. The curved skin on leading edge will support itself.
Champ
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Permalink Reply by Robert Reinero on
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a
After many cracked nose ribs I whole heartedly agree with Champ. Cut the sharp nose with its cracks off. The nose skin will support itself and the sharp crimps in the rib will not dent the nose skin when you try to pull it tignt for riviting. I learned the hard way and had to buy an new skin.
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Permalink Reply by DJ Luscher on
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Thanks, Group, for all of the tips. I have just about worn through the scratch building DVD from homebuilt help and it is fantastic. I wouldn't be this far without that DVD. The one thing that the DVD cannot provide is the hands on "feel" and I hope to establish that with several more sacrificial "test" parts and by trying some of the tips you all have provided.
Again, many thanks.
DJ
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