Changing tube on 601XL-B

I am having difficulty getting my new tube settled into the 2 Grove Rims. Does anyone have advice or better yet pics on proper methods to change the tube on my main tire?  My valve stem sticks out too far, and rubs on the wheel skirt brace. I wish there was a builders video or You Tube shot on doing this

  • Louis W. Ott

    Are you sure you have the right tube? Did you powder the inside of the tire with talcum powder so the tube can slip around inside to locate itself better?

  • Don Forwood

    I did powder. Not sure about the proper way to seat valve stem between the 2 rims. Does one secure the stem with nuts on both sides of rim?
  • Louis W. Ott

    I remember making a tool for the valve stem location. I'll check tomorrow and see if I can send a picture.

  • Don Forwood

    Louis,

    That would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks so much for responding.

    You a credit to this group

  • Louis W. Ott

    Don,

    Here is a picture of a simple tool I made that helped me to get through the same task. Also the bag I keep it in so I don't forget what it is. It isn't fancy, but it worked. It is about 1 1/8" long with the OD same as the tube valve stem threaded end. The smaller end fits down inside of the valve stem, with the valve out, and keeps it located. The tapered end fits through the grommet and you can push the valve stem through.

  • Don Forwood

    Thanks for the advice. I still have questions on proper manner to secure the valve stem tween the 2 wheel halves. It currently sticks too far out and would rub on skirt support

  • Brian A Manlove

    1. with tube completely deflated, make sure no pinching between rim halves, torque them up
    2. partially inflate and then BOUNCE THE TIRE REPEATEDLY on the floor, rotating a little bit each time. This should fully seat the bead of the tire against the rim. If it doesn't, add a little more air and bounce it more. When I say "bounce" - I mean hold the wheel perpindicular to your body, hands on either side of the wheel hub, and gently toss it on the deck and catch it on the rebound, almost like a 2-hand basketball dribble. That should fully seat the bead of the tire on the rim and ensure that the inner tube isn't bunched up or pinched anywhere. If the stem is still sticking out too far, then my guess is that your replacement tube has a longer stem than the one you're replacing.
  • Don Forwood

    My new tube may have a longer valve stem. I must admit I didn't catch extra length when comparing. Relate questions:

    1. I want to replace brake pads. I see ones on Spruce, but looks like I need to rivit. I not too excited about that. Is there bonded pads available for my 601 XL-B brake assembly  (Grove 5x5.00)

    2. When you take the tire off the axle, do you remove the brake assembly? When changing tube, I took wheel halves apart on axle, and then re-assembled (It was really cumbersome)

  • Don Morrisey

    All the brake pads I have ever seen are attached with rivets...doesn't mean they don't exist. However riveting them is easy if you use the special tool designed for them: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/RapcoBrake.php
  • Bob Pustell

    As Dan says, riviting the brakes is no problem with the right tool. And the tool does not cost much. I am unaware of pre-assembled brakes but they may be out there somewhere. I'll bet they would be expensive.

    Yes, you take the wheel and brake disc assembly off as a unit. Yes, you take the brake off to do it, or you cannot pull the wheel assembly off the axle. By the way, be sure to deflate the tire (if it is still holding air before removal) BEFORE removing the axle nut. If the through-bolts have failed or if the wheel half has failed around the bolt heads, the tire pressure inside the tube will pop the wheel halves apart when you remove the axle nut and parts will start flying (because the axle nut is all that was holding the halves together if the attchments have failed.) That is a very rare failure, but it can and does happen and people have been hurt removing a wheel with pressure still inside it.

    I am not trying to sound condesending, but if you do not know all these basic things you have no business taking a critical aircraft system apart and putting it back together. Get some good books and learn what to do. Hire a certified mechanic (or find a knowlegable aircraft owner who does a lot of their own work) and work with them the first time. Doing it wrong in aviation can have fatal consequences.

    In your photo the safety wire on the two bolt heads for the pant bracket is not really correct, by the way. (Speaking of doing things right). As set up, both bolts can loosen and the wire will just shift along with the bolts. The safety wire as pictured will stop the bolt heads after they have rotated a half turn or so, but things will be loose by then. The wire should be installed in a way that does not let either bolt head move in the remove direction, ever, even a little bit. Also, the pigtail of cut-off twisted wire should be bent back on itself so that no sharp edge is available to slice open your (or the next worker in that area) fingertip. Again, a decent book or a few minutes spent with somebody who knows will help you. It is not hard to do but it should be done right.

    It is legal for the owner of a homebuilt to work on it themself, but that does not make it safe unless said owner knows exactly what they are doing. Please get some training rather than making guesses or improvising your own proceedures. Most things in aviation (including working on the machines) is done in a certain way because people have died or been badly injured doing it different ways.

  • Don Forwood

    Bob,

    I appreciate your  comment, and the reason I posted questions is to ensure that items are done in correct, safe manner. As I DID NOT BUILD this A/C, I use this forum to get advice from experienced builders. As for my experience with mechanical items, you are way off base. Too many assumptions. I spent my college years (late 60's) as a mechanic on a Interstate service center. With hundreds of semi tires and split rims in my background, I do not need to be reminded of the safety aspects. With that said, I do want to thank-you for input, excluding condescending remarks. I was of the assumption that the forum was meant to share experience and advice, not "tee-off" on someone with legit questions.

    If roles were reversed, I would have attached pictures, documentation (if I had any) etc to assist a fellow owner. The safety wired brace was on the starboard wheel, and was done by the builder, not me. This is the first time I have removed the skirts.

  • Brian A Manlove

    I don't think Bob was trying to be condescending - he has YOUR SAFETY in mind... and based on your questions, it does indeed appear that you have not much experience with airplane maintenance. Of course you can learn it, nobody doubts that... and you obviously have the ambition to tackle the job. I personally think your best bet would be to get some help from someone who has done this, and watch & take notes, and you'll never have to ask again. I personally watched the HomeBuilt Help DVD's for my plane (650) that shows disc brake assembly, tire mounting, etc. and was worth every penny. I also had the same question about the valve-stem nuts that came with the inner tube, I called Caleb at tge Zenith factory, and they are not used on the Grove hubs. You just position the stem in the hole that is formed by the 2 hub halves. If it sticks out too far, you will either have to get a new tube of the correct stem length or re-mount your fairing bracket... Did you call Zenith to get the correct tube number?
  • Don Forwood

    Brian
    Thanks again for input. I truly appreciate helpful suggestions from members of the group. Your last was extremely helpful. I was not aware of DVD you referenced and I can easily see the benefits
    I am not a bit experienced with a/c wheels and tires, so the DVDs will answer a variety of questions. Please be assured that I am extremely safety conscious and maybe a little thin skinned when lectured.
    I would again remark that my perception of a builder forum is support vs judgement.
    I did not build the plane and as a former USMC jet attack pilot and a seasoned mechanic I am aware of my limitation (as Dirty Harry says) and safety has been a primary component of my being since starting flight training in 1966 and cemented by US Navy flight school
    I strive not to anger members, as I know the future will bring more opportunities to seek assistance. I guess my Marine training commands that I defend my position. (I did seek out advice from a group of experienced builders)
    I really hope I don't anger other members.
  • Brian A Manlove

    It's OK!! I am a USN vet and I worked on aircraft, and I've been an automotive wrencher for 45 years - but these little airplanes really are different beasts. The hardest thing for me was the relatively small size of nuts & bolts and the light torques required - AN-3's will not even seem to be "tight" by automotive standards - but it really is critical on these airplanes, that they be correctly done. If you look at your brake disc, brake, the outboard brakepad is held on by 2 safety-wired bolts. If you pull those bolts, the brakepad will slide out & off... then pull the cotter pin & axle nut off and the entire hub assy. will slide off the axle. It uses a regular automotive-style tapered roller bearing both inboard & outboard, which is "packed" behind a stainless shim washer and a felt seal. It's also a REALLY GOOD idea to repack those bearings at the same time, since you will then be absolutely sure that it has been done. Once you have the hub/wheel off, you should be able to get the inner tube & tire reset right, and you'll know how it goes back together.
  • Brian A Manlove

    P.S. - when I say "outboard brake pad" - that is outboard of the wheel hub, not the airplane. It's really the inboard brake pad, relative to the landing gear... hope that makes sense.
  • Brian A Manlove

    P.S.S - I can get you pics of this stuff later this week, my plane is hangared away from home.