Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Austin on November 12, 2014 at 9:40am

For a budget panel, get a MGL Xtreme EFIS - You could run all your engine monitoring and has a built in GPS that gives a pseudo artificial horizon that is as good as having an AHRS. It also will run a remotely mounted Sandia STX 165-R (which I think is a little less than the STX 165 panel mount) and that saves panel space. The XTreme's GPS has a full airport database and will give you a GPS navigator that can go direct-to or follow routes.

Also, get a MGL V6 com radio - absolutely bulletproof and fits in a 2 1/4" panel mount. Has a stereo intercom built-in that works really  well and also has external input for music, etc. It weighs about 240 grams.

I've found these two boxes to be the best "bang for the buck" out there. I will admit, however, that it is a lot of data to interpret when trying to use the EFIS as both a engine monitor and for flight instrumentation (there are display pages for engine data and flight instrumentation both together and separately), but it is a tremendous bargain. I had a GRT EIS 6000, but its alphanumeric data looks so "20th century" I finally updated and added a MGL XTreme EMS box.

Here's my latest panel with the three boxes I've mentioned:

GRT is supposed to be coming out with a new graphical interface box that will be plug-compatible with the EIS 6000, but the latest I heard from them it is probably a couple of years from reality and production.

John

N750A

(not affiliated with MGL, just obviously a happy customer!)

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Permalink Reply by Carlos Sa on November 12, 2014 at 10:11am

John, thanks for the advice - I'll take a look at the configuration you propose.

I suspect it will cost more than my list.

Note that I am in Canada, so the map coverage may or may not be there.

Actually, I did not mention in my shopping list, but for navigation I am thinking of a tablet running Naviator (they are in BC and claim to cover Canada).

Carlos

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on November 12, 2014 at 3:22pm

Here it is lit up, just in case you get tempted! Heh, heh, heh ... :

My hangar-mate runs Naviator on an Android tablet and really likes it. I used a tablet for a while with AnyWhereMap (which I do not recommend as the support is terrible!), but got tired of sometimes not so good visibility/legibility. I went to the iFly 720, which has an effective screen brightness approximately three times that of an iPad, and I really like it. It has a built-in GPS and moving map and communicates via WiFi to a SkyRadar ADSB receiver that I have remotely mounted (found one like new for $300 on Ebay!) and works flawlessly. The iFly 720 gives me the moving map with superimposed weather.

I initially was going to go the round gauge route, but surprisingly, the XTreme EFIS gives round gauge flight instruments a pretty good run for the money, especially if you're purchasing all new instruments and with the EFIS you're getting a GPS navigator and database built-in! I "think" you have to import a database for Canada for the EFIS and iFly is adding Canadian coverage, if they haven't already. The most recent free firmware upgrade gives it autopilot functionality so I added a couple of servos and an AHRS and it works great!

The Sandia STX 165 is a great transponder and apparently bulletproof! Likewise, I never had a moment's problem with the GRT EIS ... you couldn't go wrong with it, either!

Just some alternatives to consider - hopefully some others will chime-in with their recommendations and rationale for their picks. I've never seen two panels alike - there is an infinite number of combination of choices and arrangements! 

Good luck with your project and let's see some panel pictures later on!

John

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Permalink Reply by Carlos Sa on November 13, 2014 at 9:58am

Yes, it looks very nice!

Do you have any pressure input in your instruments? (Pitot/static)

This is one reason why I like the iLevil AW. The other is that it takes the data from the EIS 6000 and displays it on the tablet, so I don't need to look at the 20th century LCD display.

Thanks for the comments, very helpful!

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on November 13, 2014 at 10:34am

Yes, the XTreme EFIS has the usual pitot/static inputs as it has all the standard flight instrumentation on-board. It also has an artificial horizon that uses the internal GPS to drive it. Although it is cautioned "not for IFR," I've flown hundreds of hours IFR and can assure anyone that it works so good that I would not hesitate to use it in an emergency - the motion is very smooth and accurate. I did, however, eventually add an AHRS as I wanted to take advantage of the autopilot function in the EFIS. Adding an autopilot is pretty much "plug and play!" The EFIS has a CAN bus (like a computer network daisy-chain) that you simply plug the servos and AHRS into. (I used to make fun of people installing an autopilot in a 750 ... seems the antithesis of what the 750's all about! HOWEVER, it finally dawned on me that any cross-country in a 750 is a long cross-country (time-wise!) so it's nice to let "George" do the flying and take a break every now and then!)

When you add an AHRS, you then get a slip/skid ball on the EFIS, so I deleted the round-gauge inclinometer from my panel and put my compass in its place..

That's really neat you can graphically display the EIS 6000 with the iLevil software!

John

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Permalink Reply by Carlos Sa on November 15, 2014 at 4:34pm

Johns, thanks for the comments, 'preciate it!

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Permalink Reply by Tim Juhl on November 19, 2014 at 8:11pm

Carlos,

I purchased the iLevil AW and the EIS6000J for much the same reasons as you discussed.  My XL hasn't flown yet but I have played around with the iLevil temporarily installed in my Aeronca Champ. I mounted my iPad using the RAM system and had a lot of fun with it.  In the Champ I did not use the pitot static hookups but I will in the XL.  The AHRS worked great and the GPS/ ADS-B worked well with the FLYQ maps.  It was nice to be able to pull up Metars and view weather Radar overlays while airborne. I wish I had such capability years back when I was doing a lot of IFR flying in the C182 I owned at the time.

 

The folks at iLevil are great to work with and very interested in producing a product that meets the needs of pilots.  I know this because I made a few suggestions to their engineer which showed up as improvements in their latest software version.

Good luck!

Tim

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Driscoll on August 2, 2015 at 5:15pm

Hi John, do you know about what the total would be for your panel? Looks great! Do you have a Jabiru 3300?

Thanks, Jeff

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on August 2, 2015 at 6:54pm

Yes, I've got a Jab 3300 with 325 hrs!

Hey, I thought one of the unwritten rules of aviation is never actually add up what you've spent on a panel ... or the airplane!   ;>)

But, here goes: the EFIS is $1295 - has a built in GPS for basic navigation (no moving map) and a GPS-driven attitude indicator that is extremely accurate. I added a $700 AHRS because I wanted to use the EFIS's autopilot (included free) and it requires an AHRS - otherwise you don't really need the AHRS because the GPS attitude indicator works so well! The EFIS also remotely controls a Sandia 165R Mode C transponder which I think costs about $1600.

The EMS is $1700 including the RDAC (the box to interface the senders with the EMS) and the senders. The MGL V6 is $1095 and includes a stereo intercom and auxiliary music input - in my opinion it is the best bang for the buck radio you can buy and it only weighs 240 grams!

The Mini Power Panel is $536. I also upgraded to an iFly 740 GPS ($899 but I got a trade-in credit for my 720) that has a moving map and displays ADS-B traffic and weather via WiFi from a Sky Radar receiver I picked up on Ebay for $300.

However, if I was starting from scratch and wanted to go the MGL route (it's a great company - the support is excellent, the prices are good, and the equipment seems bullet-proof!), I'd now buy the "Discovery Lite" EFIS. It comes in a 7.5" version with an internal AHRS included for about $3000 (I think!) and they also have an 8.5" for a little more. My hangar-mate just installed one recently and is very pleased so far. You get the moving map, synthetic vision, displays ADS-B, etc. so that would negate the need and cost for the iFly or other moving map solution. You also wouldn't need the EMS display as these displays are big enough for comfortable viewing of engine monitoring,flight instrumentation, and the moving map.

Big Hint: if you make a big order from Matt at MGL, expect and ask for a discount!

Hope this helps ... you'll notice I didn't go through the "pain" of totaling all that up! Haha!

John

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Driscoll on August 3, 2015 at 9:25am

Thanks John! I appreciate your time on pulling all together for me!

I'm actually looking at an almost complete 750 Cruzer where I would be able to specify the avionic, engine, but would have to get it painted, registered, air worthiness, test flights, etc.

From the reading I've done so far, it seems like a substantial process of inspections and testing. Tell me if I'm seeing this as more of a time-consuming project than it really us, even after buying it with the engine and avionics installed.

PS: did you have overheating problems to solve with the Jabiru?

Jeff

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on August 3, 2015 at 9:40am

Painting can be time consuming - a quality paint job usually involves breaking-down the completed plane (you want to be sure everything fits before painting!), then painting the individual wings, tail, etc., and re-assembly. If you buy one with engine and avionics installed and tested, then really the airworthiness inspection goes quickly and the Phase I testing is time consuming, but hey, you're at least getting to fly the airplane!

The Jab 3300 is a 6 cylinder, air cooled engine. It is always challenging to adapt it to a low speed, high drag airframe like the STOL 750. But, if you methodically and progressively tweak the cooling, it's achievable to have normal.cooling and for me, I enjoyed it - sort of an extension of the whole homebuilding process!

The Cruzer will have a little less drag and hopefully a little higher airspeed, so that will make the Jab 3300 happier with the increased airflow - seems to me it should be even easier vs the STOL 750. Also, you normally purchase the cowling with the FWF (firewall forward engine installation kit) and Jabiru USA has a new cowl design that substantially aids cooling - I don't think you'll have much problems!

We're creeping the thread a bit here, so if you have any more cooling questions, either PM me or start a new topic ... I'm the Forum Moderator and don't want to have to censure myself!  ;>)

John

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Permalink Reply by Chris Hoare on August 8, 2015 at 5:53pm

Hi John
Great wright up exactly what I was going to use ,did you get two xtreams or one that Solely engine monitor.
I have been debating to get two xtreams so if one fails I can use the other as efts and still check engine monitor by cycling through on the one that has not failed just as a back up.
What are your thoughts.
Chris

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