Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ken Podaima on April 17, 2009 at 11:21pm

Best to use clecos, buy them at Airventure for about 20 -30 cents each. The inspector needs to see the inside of every component before final closure. Clecos are cheaper than multiple inspections. Aircraft not listed require a 51% determination, again at additional cost.


Ken Podaima

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Permalink Reply by Robert Stacey on April 17, 2009 at 9:27am

Thanks for the input Stefan.
I used colecoes but found if you accidently knock one sideways when moving the parts, they can bend the metal and leave an ugly 3/8 inch ring around the rivet hole. To avoid this and to recover some colecos I used some #4 machine screws and nuts to tempoarly hold the skins in place while they are in storage.

I am now having problems with the wing because after riveting the bottom spar and nose ribs it takes a bit of work to wrap the skin around to the upper spar. I would love to just rivet it in place to avoid furthur kinks and damage but if the inspector wants to see the inner nose ribs or strut mount, I'll have to drill a bunch of rivets. Maybe previous builders just put in tempoary rivets or maybe good photos of everything would suffice. At any rate it sure slows down the building process.

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Permalink Reply by Doug MacDonald on April 17, 2009 at 10:14am

I put "tack rivets" in. Essentially, I placed the minimum amount of rivets in the open side to keep things closed up and maintian structural integrety during storage. I found that having clecos sticking out of an inspectable part was a good way to end up with a dinged skin. On the flip side of things, you have to be vary careful removing the tack rivets too. Every rivet you remove risks damaging the part.

If you have any questions, don't be shy about contacting your inspector. Generally, they are more than happy to explain what they want to see when they come for the inspection. It is to their benifit if you have things layed out exactly as they want it. It saves them time and gives them confidence in your work.

One other hint, don't paint anything until after your pre-closeur inspection. I painted my cabin frame as it was riveted in place for the inspection. My inspector said that was not a good thing. He passed it anyway after looking at the rest of my welds.

Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada

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Permalink Reply by Robert Stacey on April 17, 2009 at 1:05pm

Thanks Doug.
Good advice.
I'll see if I can get in touch with the inspector and see how he wants things.

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Permalink Reply by Tommy Walker on April 17, 2009 at 1:04pm

I probably don't understand what I think you are saying.

Can you rivet the nose skin before closing up the top skin? I thought the same rivets held both skins?

Sorry if I misunderstood what you are asking.

Tommy Walker in Alabama

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Permalink Reply by Robert Stacey on April 17, 2009 at 2:22pm

You are right, the same rivets do close up the top and nose skins.
I would like to rivet the top spar and just use a couple of tempoary rivets on the trailing edge of the top skin to hold it in place. Once these were removed the top skin could be lifted enough to see inside the wing bays for inspection. As it stands now I will be storing a wing without the structual strength of the nose or top skins unless like Doug suggested I use tempoary rivets and drill them out before inspection.
This wouldn't be so bad by itself but when combined with rudder, stabilizer, elevator, slats, flaperons and the second wing it is going to take some doing to get right.

BTW the reason for asking is I havn't notice any discussion about inspections on any of the news groups and was wondering if I am making needless work for myself.

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Permalink Reply by Normand Lambert on March 19, 2011 at 8:16am

Hi Robert,

Don't guesst it. The inspector HAS to be able to see EVERYWHERE. So, nothing enclosed should be riveted for good unlees you can have visual access to its internals. Believe me, I had to unrivet my underside wings to show the inspector.
NOT FUN. Better safe than sorry. For me, It took 3 inspections : the precover was done for the fuse, the stabilitor and rudder.
The first additional was for both wings, elevator, flaps, slats and ailerons. The last additional was to check everything over and get the snags signed off.
Don't chance it ! If you close it, they can make you unrivet it.

Good luck with your project.
Normand Lambert
CH701 C-GFEU

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Permalink Reply by Robert Stacey on March 19, 2011 at 9:00am

Thanks Norman.

I just had my precover inspection and you are absolutly correct. I got a little ahead of myself and enclosed my rudder not thinking it had to be inspected. To be on the safe side I drilled out half the rivets on one side, enough to fold back the skin to have a look inside. The inspector suggested I finish removing all the rivets on one side to allow clear and easy inspection. I did this before the end of the inspection and he had a good look. I also left the seat pans and turtle deck off to allow inspection of these areas. Now I can close up everything and proceed to finish my 701.

  Final inspection and then fun!

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Ghazan Haider on March 21, 2011 at 2:13pm

Oh no, I've enclosed my rudder too. I read somewhere that it was only the leading edges which must be open.

 

I was then told by an expert to rivet up halfway the top skins, the inspector needs only to lift them slightly.

 

Now reading this it looks like I'll have to drill out MANY rivets on the top skins as well as my rudder. I did take pictures of everything before closing up. This really adds to the work involved especially if you have a single-car garage and must carefully shuffle around major parts.

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