shortest safe runways in real world

I've got a meadow in which I can carve out a runway or 2 which could be around 600-800 feet of grass. I may be able to get clear arrival and departure corridors, or may be stuck with 20-40 foot trees at either end; or possibly use close-in turns before touchdown or after liftoff to avoid them.

I have 2,300 hrs in Piper Cherokees and a Navajo. I flew the PA-28 and PA-32 in + out of a lot of grass strips, altho much longer like 1,600 ft and up.

The marketing material and specifications for the 701 and STOL 750 have TO and landing distances in the range of 50 - 150 ft. It makes me wonder if there's an aircraft-engine-prop combination which could safely navigate a 600-800' runway.  I realize the specs are ideal conditions: paved surface, perhaps competition weight, etc. So I'm hoping people might share what they're really doing with these aircraft day in and day out. Is there a 701 or 750, engine, and prop combination that could work with this patch of land?

What's the shortest runway that people are routinely operating these aircraft from?

What engine + prop do you have?

(I'm expecting to invest in more horsepower + a flight-adjustable or variable pitch prop)

What does real-world ground run and lift-off speed look like?

What's real-world initial best angle of climb - airspeed, vertical speed?

What's the aircraft weight at which you are operating on these short strips?

I'm in Ohio at 1,300 ft MSL. Summers can be in the 90's but I don't need it to be safe on the hottest days. I'm about 180 lbs. I'd like to be able to take my wife along at 125 lbs some days, and maybe enuf fuel for a couple hours. I'd prefer to run on mogas; looking at the Viking 175 or bigger Rotax as possible engine options, but open to anything that makes it work and makes it safe.

I'd sure appreciate real-world, real pilot input on whether these planes are a real option with my land. Other options might be an ultralight or a helicopter like R-22. But the 701 and 750 have obvious cabin and cruise advantages over UL's and choppers.

Many thanks in advance,

Chris

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Permalink Reply by P. Richards on August 27, 2026 at 2:50pm

Can you determine "typical" wind direction and speed for your property?

Anyone can easily get a 701 or 750 in and out of 300 feet at gross weight with a 30mph headwind, but those numbers go out the window as the wind drops or density altitude goes up.

I routinely get a 701 on amphibs out of small lakes at near gross weight ;-) with no problems. Takeoff run is 10-12 seconds and uses less than 1000ft.

On a runway with wheels it is less than half of that.

Here is a 6 second 400 ft roll to take off and climb out at VX on a 90 degree day.

CH701 with 100hp Rotax. (probably 150lbs under gross)

https://zenith.aero/video/vx-takeoff-from-greenfield-ns

Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on August 27, 2026 at 6:10pm

Thanks that's very helpful for sure.

Replying to your question about wind, here's a "rose" of summer wind direction + speed. On this I'd love to get a SW-facing runway. But the meadow rises maybe 30 ft in elevation from the NE corner to the SW corner. I can probably carve a clear landing approach thru trees etc for landing to the SW which would be terrific (landing uphill). But takeoff would be hard unless I could get the wheels up off the grass before the upslope began, and then out-climb the rising slope in the initial climbout. The NE-SW runway might be around 800 ft long, but the upslope starts maybe halfway along its length when taking off to the SW - so the real-world groundroll on grass is crucial.

I can get shorter runways pretty close to E-W and N-S (~600 ft). If I can get my wheels off the ground in say 400 ft??? ... I'm thinking a turn into the wind right off the ground, to get the full benefit of a headwind in the initial climb angle. I'm suspecting that the 701 / 750 have good control authority at airspeeds close to stall speed, but that's another thing that would be very helpful to hear about from real pilots with real experience.

  

To make sure I'm with you, from what I've read ...

- a 701 with the Rotax 100hp engine is going to be somewhere around 600 lbs empty,

 - with a max gross weight of 1,100 lbs, so 150 under might be 950 lbs off the runway.

 

It'd be so helpful to get some idea of what people see for ground run on grass or backcountry takeoff's.

Also very helpful to hear  what airspeed pilots use for initial climbout in a max performance departure with an obstacle to clear; and what they get for vertical speed at that Vx.

I've been trying to get some idea of what these might be, with what appears to be published. Like for example, for the 701:

 - Stall speed published is 28 mph.

 - If Vx is somewhere near 115% of stall speed (typical), then Vx = 32 mph

 - If climb rate at Vx is 70% of climb at Vy (typical), then it might climb 800 fpm at Vx

Again I do fully appreciate that density altitude, engine/prop, headwind component, and runway surface matter a lot. To the extend that people could share the conditions in which they're getting their performance, that'd be a huge help.

I'd sure appreciate hearing what people really see for ground roll's in grass, and best-angle airspeed and vertical speeds (and what engine, prop, and takeoff weight gets them).

It'd be great if there's a plane out there that'd work in this meadow!

Thanks again so much.

Chris

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Permalink Reply by P. Richards on August 28, 2026 at 9:35am

My plane weighs 947lbs empty on the amphibs. I have 40 gallons of fuel capacity but only use 20 on floats.

I can easily fly with another 200Lb + passenger and 20 gallons of fuel.

Our Gross weight may be different than yours, but the plane handles it with no issues.

Computed empty CG

947.5

13.4 CG inches

12700.5 total moment

Climbs at well over 800 Ft/min. on a 75 deg. day.

I've had mine at 36MPH indicated (on wheels) in a full stall dropping at 500 ft/min with the nose pointed up at the clouds, so I doubt you will get anywhere close to 28 MPH without a horse jockey pilot and 2 gallons of fuel on board.

Never tried stalls with the floats on. Can't imagine it would end well from below 1500ft.

We typically touch down on the water around 55MPH to leave a little room for adjustments or a go around if needed.

Here is a 500ft runway landing in 12kts of headwind at 52MPH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kW9V9D56k4

Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on August 28, 2026 at 10:38am

Wow that is one SWEET plane on those amphib floats!!

Thanks so much for sharing the real-world airspeed and groundroll numbers - that's an enormous help right there.

For a landing like that - do you need to use the brakes hard to stop it in 500 feet? I'm wondering if you're braking + decelerating harder than you could if you were on grass (instead of pavement).

Thinking about the aircraft weight on floats vs on wheels - it looks like the floats weigh maybe 200 lbs (from here ), but taking the wheels off (~50 lbs??), so maybe net 150 lbs heavier on floats than wheels ... is that somewhere close?

What is your max gross?  I'm seeing 1,100 lbs for the 701 w' Rotax 100 here, but I'm not clear on whether that's the max or does the LSA limit (1320/1430) apply.

Thanks again for the links and for all your time responding to my many questions. I really appreciate it.

If anyone else can share takeoff roll and best-angle-of-climb numbers, I'd sure be very grateful.

Thanks again.

Permalink Reply by Matt Pope on August 28, 2026 at 10:48am

Here's Jon Humberd's one-way-in, one-way-out 360' strip where he flies his Rotax 912 ULS powered 701 (and previously his UL Power UL350iS powered "Super 701"). (See the comment under the photo, screenshotted from Facebook.)

Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on August 28, 2026 at 1:39pm

Matt thanks a bunch for that, with this I've found a lot of his other stuff.

This is more in the ballpark of what I'm looking at, altho certainly shorter, which is reassuring.

Thanks again, C

Permalink Reply by Matt Pope on August 28, 2026 at 2:14pm

Yeah, it shows that as long as the pilot can nail the airspeed and touchdown point consistently, the airplane is more than capable.

If you haven't seen this video of Roger (Zenith's demo pilot) demonstrating takeoff and landing techniques, it's worth watching and re-watching: https://youtu.be/JkgT81awYYc?si=brlqIWaHVDVedl65 There's another video where he's taking off and landing on wheels in snow with a roll-out of a little over a hundred feet. 

Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on August 28, 2026 at 2:46pm

Matt thanks for that one too.

By now I'm comfortable that the 701 + Rotax 100 hp can do what I need on pavement. I'm calling around for 701 and 750 owners around Ohio to see if I can get a look at their aircraft - power - prop - runway situations, see if I can gain confidence that it'll work in this meadow.

BTW this youtube.com/watch?v=dfXT38YIO6g seemed like an excellent recap of short+soft field takeoff technique off-pavement. I flew the PA28-180 off soft grass a lot, often short enuf to matter, with "johnson bar" manual flaps.

The technique of pulling the flaps some right at rotation to get the plane up off the grass, holding them in, then easing off as it accelerates to fly up out of ground effect - that was effective in that plane. Roger doesn't mention it in this video but he's not particularly interested in getting a short+steep takeoff in there. I can't help wondering if pilots have found that useful in the 701 and/or 750's when you need to get off short + climb steep.

Thanks again, very helpful.

Permalink Reply by P. Richards on August 28, 2026 at 3:11pm

I use the flap technique on almost every water takeoff with no wind.

Remember that the 701 has linked flap/ailerons. so its not quite the same as separate flaps, but the effect is similar.

I can "pop" off the water and accelerate in ground effect quite easily,

You can see me practicing it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQZkmtEBgg8

Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on August 28, 2026 at 3:25pm

Thanks P., yup that's it!

Does the 701 / 750 have a manual flap bar standard, with electric as an upgrade?

I think I've seen both on youtube

 thx again

Permalink Reply by Rob Lankford on Saturday
I have similar objectives with my yard and my 801 project. I have 600' between fences. With some dozer work I could make it 800'. Prevailing winds are from the north, and the runway is oriented nw-se, so an upwind takeoff to the north is facing a large hill. Once the 801 is up and flying, I'll have to simulate takeoff and landings with these conditions at a proper airport nearby before I try my backyard strip.
Permalink Reply by Chris Skudder on Saturday

Rob, I'd be real interested in how you make out. How far are you from getting it flying do you think?  Have you selected your engine/prop?

I'm new to the plane + forums, have only taken 1 ride in a 701 w' 100hp Rotax. From my VERY limited exposure to the planes and what little I've absorbed from reading, an 801 in+out of 600' sounds like a challenge. But if you can do it, that makes me wonder if I oughta be considering a 750 (with a bigger engine) instead of a 701.

Where are you / what are the typical DA's you'll be flying in? That hill- how high, how far from the departure end of the strip? Any other obstacles?

many thanks,

Chris

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