Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers
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Slats and VG's
I recently had my 750's completion published in EAA's Sport Aviation magazine. Accompanying this was a picture of my first flight. Many sharp-eyed readers noticed that I didn't have the slats installed, and I've received a number of inquiries from all over the country about "how does the 750 fly without slats and do you have VG's installed (on the main wing)?" Since I've had to compose my thoughts a number of times to respond to these requests for information, I thought it might be of general interest to the forum, too:
I selected the 750 to build and fly as I already had a 2100' turf strip situated in a most picturesque place, the Sequatchie Valley in mid-east Tennessee. Although I did not need the extreme STOL capability, I wanted a plane that was Light Sport, large/comfortable cabin, great visibility, and designed for "low and slow." I purchased a partially-built kit with slats mostly built and the brackets already installed in the wings. As I approached first flight, Russell Calhoun generously let me fly his 750 with and without slats ... it had never occurred to me not to install the slats! He did have the Stolspeed VG's installed on the main wing, too.
His plane flew so well without slats, I was very confident that mine would, too. My DAR wanted to move up my inspection, and the slats were still in the paint booth, so I certified the plane without slats and without VG's on the main wings. I later added the slats during Phase I to get the testing out of the way, and did weight-and-balances for both configurations. I later removed the slats after testing. I've always had Zenith's VG's on the elevator and just recently added the Stolspeed VG's on the wings.
What I've found is this:
1) I gained 8 kts at cruise (2900 rpm, Jab 3300) and 14 lbs of useful load without the slats.
2) Take-off and landing rolls are probably a bit longer without slats. However, with the Stolspeed VG's installed and no slats, if there is any difference in lengths of rolls (vs slats), I can't detect it. The VG's for the main wing have no effect on cruise speed, cost about $100, and take about a half-day to install.
3) Obviously, the slats allow steeper approach and ascent angles. As I accelerate through 25 kts indicated, I can haul back on the stick and you can feel the plane sort of jump and "hang" on the slats and then accelerate quickly and steeply! I couldn't quite do that without slats, but once the VG's were added, it's very similar to the slats except perhaps the initial acceleration is a little slower and the angle a little less aggressive, but I can still get lift-off going through 25 kts.
4) If you're a little high on final and pull the power back and push the nose down, the slats act like speed brakes - you don't seem to pick up a lot of excess airspeed and reach a "terminal velocity" of about 55-60 kts indicated. However, if one misjudges the flare and runs out of airspeed/energy, it sinks abruptly and is probably the cause of a lot of the nosegear collapses we hear about.
5)With the slats off, the plane is relatively resistant to slowing down (thought you'd never hear that! HA!) and I find myself using flaps more. But, the increased gliding and penetration ability, plus the low-speed control authority with the VG's makes it easy to do "squeaker" landings.
6) Practicing departure stalls, I found that with the slats, I never could really say it "stalled" - just mushed along completely controllable with a higher and higher descent rate. Without the slats and without VG's on the wing, it pretty much classically stalls at 25 kts indicated with plenty of pre-stall buffeting and warning and then the left wing drops at the stall, but easily picked up With the VG's, the stall delayed to nearly 20 kts indicated and the buffeting gave plenty of warning prior to the stall.
7) If I had know then what I know now, would I even install the slat brackets? I think that would be a pretty gutsy move for the first time builder. After all, it only takes about 20 min to bolt the slats on or off. But I do think the plane looks odd with "naked" slat brackets. I made some leading-edge shaped trim pieces to attach to the brackets, but I'm undecided whether that really looks better or not! I believe someone on the forum mentioned developing a hidden slat bracket that would only leave a bolt head showing? Might be a good alternative but esthetic way to keep the slat capability in the event of having to sell the airplane later.
Just my $.02!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Austin on
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I "think" the main spar rivet line is the most aft of those two lines ... it's the one that runs the entire span of the wing spar. So, yes, you're too far forward (I corrected my previous post where I said "back"). However, I'd still fly it and test it and see if there really is any difference.
John
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Thomas,
I really couldn't notice any difference but I never "pushed" it by flying really steep, slow or uncoordinated turns! The only objective information I can tell you about stalls is that with slats, the wing never seemed to stall, the plane just mushed down controllably, and without slats, the VG's lowered the departure stall speed about 5 kts to about a ridiculously low and (probably inaccurate) 20 kts indicated!
I don't know about the slats helping in the scenario you describe ... seems the slat's drag wouldn't be helping that wing fly in that attitude ... might even be better off with the VG's. Guess we need an aerodynamicist to answer that one!
John
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Permalink Reply by Wayne Tyson Jr on
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Thomas, I recently asked John (or anyone else who cares to comment, especially aerodynamicists) pretty much the same question. Now that this has had a few months to cook, do "we" know any more about stall/spin resistance of slats?
Yr. Ob't. Sv't.,
Wayne
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Permalink Reply by Normand Lambert on
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Hi John,
I did exactly the same for my CH701 and came out with the same conclusions. I have a written report on my page here on this forum (CH701). Thanks for sharing. By the way, I also hate to see those empty Slats brackets so I designed Stall fences which I'm about to install... More on this later.
Enjoy your CH750 ...Like I do my 701, they're so nice to fly around !
Regards,
Normand Lambert
CH701
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Couldn't find Lambert's report, but then, as y'all know, I are a Internet idiot.
BTW, Heintz suggests removal of the slat brackets. Anyone know why?
WT
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Hi again
Check discussion
Installing Hall Brothers Vortex Generator Kit (WING VGs) to the CH701 wing
Posted by Normand Lambert on September 29, 2013 at 10:40pm
That is where it is.
Regards
Norm
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Permalink Reply by Roy Alton on
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Hi Norm. Am about to install same Hall Brothers VG's on my 701 and was unable to find your Sept 29 2013 post. Was hoping to get proper placement location if that info had been there. I'm still waiting for VG's however an older part kit instructions suggested 10 percent cord.
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"Plastic" or aluminum?
Is this comment, ostensibly from John Austin, still current? I'll have to go out to the hangar and look at the slat attachment situation more closely. What if one didn't cut the brackets at all? Would they flutter?
"The easiest and tidiest way to remove the slat brackets, is just to cut them off about 12mm from the skin, along the profile of the leading edge. Then they look like miniature stall fences, and you don't have to fill the holes in the skin."
Tip from John Austin (750) Cut the brackets at 20mm out from the skin, so that you could re-attach the slats again, if desired."From: http://www.stolspeed.com/zenith-750
Wayne Tyson
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Hi all,
Plastic or aluminum ? I would have to say 'YOUR CHOICE'. Made of either material, they weight next to nothing.
They both can be mounted with double sticky tape but the aluminum ones can be riveted also.
Mine came from Aircraft Spruce and are aluminum. My 701 stays outside year around so with the ice and snow , I wanted the durability of aluminum. Also, the plastic ones HATE fuel ! Be aware.
Otherwise, they both work very well.
Regards,
Normand
CH701 C-GFEU
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Permalink Reply by Joe Spencer on
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I did some test work for a certain manufacturer of the paired aluminum vgs...yes they're obviously more durable but they made measurable drag. Other than that they performed same as the single plastic vgs. Last thing I want on mine is more drag...we got enough of that already.
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Additional information ... the 20mm height will leave enough room for for an adequate edge distance for holes for AN3 bolts should you wish to re-mount the slats.
John
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Is cutting part of them off primarily for aesthetic reasons or aerodynamic ones?
Wayne
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