Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Robert Pelland on October 30, 2011 at 11:27am

Eldon,

Not too many names come to me right now, but I have heard, and I believe there are quite a few.  There is one gentlemen in Northern Quebec who flies regularly off floats with a 0200 in his 701.  He has however slightly increased the wing span

Good luck

Robert

 

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Permalink Reply by Andre Levesque on October 30, 2011 at 6:22pm

Hello heldon,

The guy Robert is referring to is Luc Levasseur and he actually lives in Timmins Ontario,Canada. 

You can look him up from the member's list on this site. He can surely provide very useful information on his setup. He plan built a  zenith 701/750 continental O-200 with a 74'' constant speed aeromatic prop  and he uses 1140 edo floats.

I hope this helps.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Pustell on October 30, 2011 at 8:45pm

William Wynne has fitted the Corvair engine (converted with his conversion parts into an aircraft engine) on both the 701 and the 750, as well as the 600 series airplanes. The Corvair is in the same weight and power range as the O-200. It is a tough fit (due mostly to weight) but it works in the 701. It is a fabulous engine for the 750. I suspect the same is true of your O-200, it is pushing the design hard to get it to accomodate the engine, but it can be done in a 701. William's website is www.FlyCorvair.com and there is a search box available. With a few careful choices of keywords, you can read a lot about fitting the Corvair to the 701, and most of that would apply in a general way to the O-200 as well, I should think. You might also want to consider the Corvair. William even markets an engine mount and cowling set, as well as technical assistance. You can build your own engine from his conversion manual and parts, or you can buy a built and running engine from him.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Cole on October 30, 2011 at 11:37pm

I have and fly a Zenith 701 with a 100hp Rotax 912S.  The biggest problem you will be up against with a 701 is its usefull load.  The O200 weighs in at least 75 pounds heavier than the Rotax with the same horsepower, and that will put your empty weight near 700 pounds.  That only leaves 400 pounds for fuel and passengers.  So if you have two 200-pound people, then you can cary exactly ZERO fuel.  At least with the Rotax 912 and two 200-pound people you can still carry 11 gallons of fuel.  I would only consider the O200 on a Zenith 750 which has a max gross weight 220 pounds heavier.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Pelland on October 31, 2011 at 6:48am

Doug and Elldon,

In a perfect world, everyone building one of these fine aircraft would hang a Rotax on the front end to benifit to the fullest of it's capacities, however in real life that is not always the end result.  For starters, most homebuilders, scratch builder or other wise, usually choose this route ( count me in here ) to try and save some of their hard earned cash. As it turnes out, the build procedure is already quite expensive, and in the middle to late stages of construction the engine issue rears it's ugly head. Here is where hard decisions must be made, and in many cases, not everyone can come up with an additionnel 25,000$ thousand dollars to purchase a Rotax 912.  There are quite a few members on this site ( no names here but you know who you are ) who regularly extol the virtures of the Rotax 912 as being the best, and or only choice for our Zenith's without taking into consideration the limited budget of some of the builders.  Although they will add on some additionnel unwanted weight, the use of affordable, low time, Continental or Lycoming, engines will most certainly be a much less expensive alternative to the Rotax, not to mention that you will be much better served when you show up unexpectadly at any one of the thousands of FBO's across the country with an engine problem, especialy far from home.  As for auto engine conversions," with all due respect "  they too have their advantages pricewise, up until the the time you decide to sell the aircraft and move on to something else.  I garantee you that your aircraft will have a much better resale value, with a well known, original aircraft engine, " certified or otherwise " , then with anything else in your engine bay.

These comments were only meant to enlighten you, and not to diminish anyone who choses otherwise for their engine choices, so good luck with your decisions, and your build.  :o)

Robert the 701 & 750 Scratch

 

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Permalink Reply by Andre Levesque on October 31, 2011 at 9:58am

Well said Robert.

Eldon, I never flew a 701 nor a 750 and I'm building a 750....is that weird or what??  LOL

The lighter you can keep the engine the better. it just happens that the lighter engine is a Rotax at FWF $25,000. The price of an O-200 new is not cheap either. 

As for the O-200, it is heavier no doubt. The flying characteristics may be different than a lighter engine but it's a choice many builders have to face. Weight, useful load, price etc. Not to mention that FWF exists for the engines that are distributed by Zenith. Other choices will add time to the build.

If you look at the flying video of Luc Levasseur on floats with an O-200...you will see a good performing aircraft but he also has longer wings on his 701. 

Takeoff:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz00AY0PO4Y

Landing:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muTaBwiXYLk

The engine discussion is always a debate on any of the different aviation site.  it's up to each builder to really weigh the pro's and con's of each available choice based on  suitability for the specific airframe,  safety,airframe fit, maintainability and costs.

For the builder's security(pilot and passenger) , the gross weight design needs to be respected and the useful load is a choice for the type of mission your are building your aircraft for. So the engine choice is really wide when it comes to choose the engine.. 

In my personal case Eldon , i am trying to get a Rotec Radial 2800 110hp(225lbs)  to fit my 750 on floats.Very similar weight than a O-200. Never been installed on a 750 before, no FWF exist for the 750 and a radial.  Will it be lighter than a Rotax 912S?  no, absolutely not. Will it have a TBO of 2500 hrs?  NO.  Will it be cheaper on gaz than other engines?  probably not (6 to 7 gph). It may not even perform to my expectation...-:)  and the build will be LONGER.

I'm building to have fun doing it and hopefully my engine choice will workout. if not....the worst case is that I will need to change it and an O-200 would be my next option. 

It's always when it comes to RELIABILITY that we are all concerned to go off the beaten path. Rotax has an extremely solid reputation and people feel very comfortable with it. The 912's weight to hp ratio is excellent for the 701 & 750.  It is a choice that needs to take all those aspects into consideration. 

The ULpower 260 and 350 are newer state of the art engines  in the 18K to 25K range. Almost the same as the Rotax I believe.  FWF are now available for the Zenith 650 and will shortly be avail for the 750.

 

So every now and then...newer engine choices popup...-:)  just to make our life easier.

 

The O-200 is heavier but many are using it in their 701's and 750's. yes, useful load suffers but many scenarios exists that may be just fine as a choice.

In my case..I don't weigh 200lbs, I will fly most of the time alone....my wife is light as a feather....I'm building a 750  to version 2 at 1440lbs...it should be fine with a 225/250lbs FWF . if not, then i chose the wrong plane for my flying.

 

So, it all depends on your mission .

 My opinion only ...LOL

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Permalink Reply by Jim Cates on January 23, 2018 at 10:31am

I weight less than 200, my Wife (not saying but well under that) Our combined weight is around 320, leaving 80 lbs for 13 gallons of fuel (about 2.5 hours of flight time)  Not certain if your 75 lb figures includes a SkyTech starter and lightweight alternator.  

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Permalink Reply by Jim Cates on January 23, 2018 at 10:44am

The Rotax is actually closer to 145 lb installed.  They quote the basic weight minus several required accessories.  

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Permalink Reply by Jim Cates on January 23, 2018 at 10:50am

A Continental with LW starter and alt is right at 200lbs.  An installed Rotax 912 is 141. That is a 59 lbs, not 75. 

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Permalink Reply by Chris Aysen on October 31, 2011 at 10:57am

Eldon - The rubber meets the road at weight. The 701 does not have much flexability on fire-forward weight. You can fly a 701 with a 0200. BUUUUT  In my opinion you'll get much better performance from the Rotax..... Is cost an issue?

Chris

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Permalink Reply by Tim Treat on November 1, 2011 at 7:23am

For me (building a 601) cost is down the list of engine priorities. I would rather take out a loan for an engine than have a plane with a lousy payload capacity. A heavy plane is no fun to own and will also have a bad resale value. You should be going for a plane weight that allows you to fill both seats and a full load of fuel.

Priorities:

1. weight

2. reliability/simplicity

3. cost

 

I chose a Jabiru 3300.

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Permalink Reply by Wayne Clagg on November 2, 2011 at 8:59pm

Hi Eldon, I am currently installing a Rotax in place of a Vw on my 701 so I will have some experience in both arenas shortly. I'll keep you posted if you would like to contact me directly. My experience with the vw on the 701 has been well documented in the Zenith newsletter and video, on the Vw forums, in the April 2011 Kitplanes, and on YouTube.
I won't beat a dead horse here, everyone else has pretty much said what needs to be said but I'll be able give you first hand reports of flying the same identical airplane with two different engines. look me up in the 701 group here and give me a shout if interested.
Wayne

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