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Comment by Greg Harris on March 21, 2016 at 7:34am

Built up a C-frame this weekend...worked just fine. Repaired my bending brake with AN5-8 rivets. No problem (lots of sweat, though...maneuvering the brake by myself was a job). Glad the plane parts will weigh much less than the brake!

Comment by Ronald Steele on March 10, 2016 at 1:56pm

When I did the "b" upgrade I did the 3/16 solid rivets with a 4X gun.  Worked like a champ.  I will say I could not control both the gun and the bucking bar at the same time.  IMO, it's a two person job, at least for a neophyte.  I did do quite a bit of practice on scrap Home Depot aluminum so I knew what to expect before going after the wing spars.  The comments about work hardening are right on.  If you can't drive it home quickly, you can't drive it home.

Ron

Comment by Jeremy w malecki on March 10, 2016 at 12:03pm

I'm about to start the rivet proses on my spars as well. I have a harbor fright box pan brake witch I took off the dies. I got a 3/8 and a 1/4 inch steel plate. I rounded the edge off and bolted it on the way the dies were on. It works predict just wish it was longer! I bent .040 x 48" with a little help with a bar. I bent .125 for control horns n it work good even know they are short. My bro in-law gave me a 8' brake so I have the figure out how to make a round bend on that now to make my long pieces any ideas would be helpful.who said scratch building isn't fun!!! Lol I'm already looking for the next one maybe a 750 on floats???

Comment by Greg Harris on March 10, 2016 at 6:56am

Thanks for the info, guys. I found a brief video on YouTube that suggests the 3X gun doesn't have the capacity, as Scott said. It says that a 3X gun will drive up to a 5-6 rivet, but not any longer. I'm trying to drive longer rivets than that (the spars need 5-11 rivets in some places). Guess I'll have to build a C-Frame. I read other materials elsewhere that suggested a 3X would do everything in the plane. Oh well...hopefully I can use it on the AD4 rivets for the cabin frame.

Comment by Scott Sutton on March 10, 2016 at 2:49am

I worked in the AC industry for several years and I shot many hundreds or even thousands of solid rivets daily. I tend to agree with Tom, sounds like you are work hardening the rivet by not hitting it with enough force. 90% of the rivets that I shot were AD4, we always used a 3X gun for this. When we were joining fuselage sections we shot AD5 along with other AC fasteners. We always went to the tool crib and checked out a MUCH larger gun to shoot them. The exact size I am not sure of. Riveting is really an easy and fun job, you shouldn't be having the issues that you are. My bet is equipment and not technique.

Comment by Tom Sullivan on March 9, 2016 at 10:09pm

HI Greg, Not knowing anything about your gun, I wonder if a 3x is a little light for an AD5 rivet. If it's a fast-hitting gun, there is a good possibility that the rivet gets hardened too much as it is forming.  The first few hits are key to getting it bucked. I find that a slow hitting 4x gun works very well in setting the bucktail in a few rather hard licks. No need to lean heavily on the gun, just firm pressure and let it do the work. Good Luck,Tom

Comment by Clint L Gosch on March 9, 2016 at 9:05pm

I decided to buy my welded parts for this project, next project I'll buy myself a welder.  Figured I have enough to learn this time around.  I've stick welded before, good enough for farm equipment but nothing airworthy.  I hope everything works out with your rivet gun, no fun when tools fail, especially new tools....

Comment by Greg Harris on March 9, 2016 at 8:03pm

One thing I noticed about the "regulator" on the 3X gun...it has a small leak coming from the dial. It may be completely faulty, which might explain why adjusting it seems to have no effect. I know for certain that the regulator on my compressor works, though it may not be reading accurately. I'm going to mess around more with the pressures...I hope I can get another set of hands (attached to someone with experience) on my gun to see if there's something that can be done. I do have the material immoblized before trying to rivet, but there could be room for improvement there as well.

My "Dave's" brake held up surprisingly well. I think it'll do the .063 if I can get it built with solid rivets. The piano hinge seems fine, just the A5 pop rivets came out. I got the upper firewall channel .063' x 893mm long /almost/ fully bent before the rivets pulled out. Been loads of fun up to this point, and I just received my TIG welder last Friday...decided to do the welding too (I have some experience welding, but TIG is a new process for me). Just another skill to practice for 6 months until I feel ready to do the "real" welding!

Comment by Clint L Gosch on March 9, 2016 at 7:51pm

I started my spar riveting with a borrowed 3x gun, then I bought the red box 3x to finish.  I found the regulator on the red box gun to be rather lacking in adjustment compared to the borrowed gun, so I ended up running a lower pressure on my compressor.  You've probably already tried this, but I'll mention it anyway, be sure your work piece is held very securely, I found that if the peice moved at all that a "spring board" effect would prevent me from keeping adequate pressure on the shop head, damaged heads and skins were the result.  You are right, very frustrating...  Also, my bending brake is in need of a rebuild as well.  I guess I cannot complain too much, it has worked great throughout my build.  It definitely does not like to bend parts over .040".  Your parts look great! Keep up the good work!

Comment by Greg Harris on March 9, 2016 at 7:27pm

Yeah, that was the method I was going to use, but then I thought I'd splurge and get a 3X gun (it was a Christmas present from a family member, in lieu of other gifts). But this is turning out to be a disaster. I'm checking with my fellow local EAA chapter members to see if anyone is willing to assist me locally, but that's sometimes a crap shoot. If all else fails, I'll go the c-frame method. I just thought using the 3X gun would be faster and "better" if I could get the hang of it. THis is more frustrating than making a part incorrectly!

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