Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Porter on April 2, 2011 at 1:40am

I think that it depends on what it is, where it is, how confident you are as well as how experienced you are... there are times we go straight for 'black clecos' and times where we start silver before bronze!  We also have Gold clecos for the 3/16th AN3 bolts, so at times we go for gold via silver too...

 

As I understand it, it as about giving YOU the chance to juggle and correct.  So many times in the early days we were 'saved' by the silver... as I said, IMO it depends on where and what you are doing....

 

Now, that did not help you one little bit... sorry!

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 2, 2011 at 8:01am

Jonathan,

Thanks, it all helps.  The idea of "juggle" makes sense to me.

Ed

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Permalink Reply by Phill Barnes on April 2, 2011 at 2:35am

If you go straight to final size and find that you need realign things a bit, then you will have a problem, two elongated holes. If you start with 3/32 and have to realign, then you can redrill with 3/32 to make a common center and then drill out to 1/8 and have two nice round perfectly aligned holes and the 5/32 in required. If you do it in gradual steps you will have a uniform small burr. If you drill straight to final size, then you will have a large and uneven burr. Try it on some scrap and you will see what I mean. Also it is much easier to push a 3/32 drill through a .025" rib flange without distorting the metal and also without possibly having the drill walking off the line.

If you don't do the hard yards in the beginning, then you will be creating a headache in the end. In my opinion, drilling and clecoing is more fun than deburring or buying more metal.

 

Hope this is helpful to you.

 

Regards

Phill

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 2, 2011 at 8:03am

Phil,

Yes, the "hard yards" seem to be worth it, I guess, just frustrating.  I'll just keep on with the process, but I may take up drinking!

Ed

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Permalink Reply by Phill Barnes on April 2, 2011 at 5:13pm

Edward

What I did  when I was doing the Zodiac wing upgrades is got a little smarter than I was before. When final size is 5/32, start with the 3/32. Mostly I do every 4th hole 3/32 and cleco and then come back for a second sweep and do every 2nd to 3/32 and cleco. Then only drill the inbetween holes the same. Then after everything is checked 5 times for trueness, the inbetween holes which are now actually every 2nd, I drill out to 1/8 and then sweep back over the same holes straight away with 5/32 and cleco. Then remove the other 3/32 clecos and drill to 1/8 and then to 5/32. Now it's ready for deburring. This eliminates the installation and extraction of 1/8 clecos. So the process is still being done acording to the rules but eliminating a time consuming step. I do feel like I am cutting a few corners when I do this but eveything stays aligned, perfectly round holes and minimal burrs. Also just let the 1/8 and 5/32 drills feed themselves with gentle pressure and you will achieve minimal burrs as opposed to pushing it through fast and having bigger burrs. This building planes stuff is supposed to be fun so technically the longer it takes, the more satisfaction. I know in reallity there are a few jobs and steps that we would all like to bypass but it's all or nothing when it comes building planes to achieve tight tollerances.

 

So keep the Kettle hot for your endless coffee and have a great time.

 

Regards

Phill

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 3, 2011 at 8:29pm

Phil,

Yup, bought one of those new Cusinart versions of the Keureg coffee machines and keep it going strong!  May even buy stock in the company that makes all those expensive little cups.

 

Thanks for the drilling idea.

Ed

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Permalink Reply by Phill Barnes on April 4, 2011 at 6:57am

Hi Again Edward

I can just see that little coffee machine workin it's little butt off for you. I drink a fair amount of the stuff so in my office attached to my shop I have a kettle, tea & coffee making gear and a fridge for a different kind of refreshment in the summer months. From the looks of your pictures you are producing high quality aircraft. Well done and keep it up.

 

Regards

Phill

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 4, 2011 at 3:42pm

Phil,

Yup, working well for me.  I see by your page that you have the 3300.  Any issues yet?

Ed

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Permalink Reply by nelson D on April 2, 2011 at 3:18pm

Dr.edward

that"s an excellent question,since we are going to use clecos as we drill why waste SO much time de-clecoing drilling to next size clecoing then deburr and finally riveting. why can"t we just start with the RIGHT SIZE DRILL,clecoing,deburr and rivet  ??

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 3, 2011 at 8:31pm

Nelson, 

See the above.  It seems like best practice is to start small and move up a bit.  Makes for less "slop" and allows you to make some minimal correction.  See Phil's response.

Ed

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Permalink Reply by Ron Lendon on April 5, 2011 at 9:32pm

Soap box on:

The real reason you sneak up on the hole size in increments is keeping the hole round. The hardest part of drilling is the first hole and the center of the hole in particular. Any hand drilling operation will float the center of the hole, so if you start with a small drill to begin with the initial hole center will wander less. Once the center is out the drilling gets much easier. If you drill sheet metal in one step to final size, most often you will end up with a triangular shaped hole. Using the step method keeps the location of the hole closer and the final roundness much better that going right to size.

Soap box off

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Edward L. Olds III on April 5, 2011 at 9:39pm

I'm a believer!  I'll just keep drilling and clecoing!!  Thanks for the response.

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