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Permalink Reply by Chris Streat on April 8, 2013 at 2:37pm

By coincidence had dinner last night with a Swedish friend, his friend was Jabiru dealer in Sweden late 1990s but changed to a rotax engine after two inflight failures in first 150 hours on old pre 2000 Jabiru like in  aircraft I was looking at. The modern Jabiru are a different motor, but the water cooled rotax still more reliable by sound of things and new Jabiru half the price of rotax today.

I still havent solved the mystery of the 2006 CH 701 manual I looked at saying +4 -2 and online the spec today is +6 -3, has the aircraft model changed over the years or did they up the allowable G on older aircraft?

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Permalink Reply by Ralph Sanson on April 11, 2013 at 3:35am

I think the load factors have not changed on the 701.

The design load factor is stated as +6  -3, the ultimate load factor.

but for a type design complying with TP 10141E / DS 10141E, the requirements of  a limit load to +4 , -2 to meet this rule, "ultimate loads are limit loads multiplied by the factor of safety of ..... 1.5   "

Further, if your shopping around for an older 701, there are several variants within the model designation "STOL CH701" , which comply with the design rule:

1986 -  MAUW 880lb and max engine weight 130lb, 45-85hp

1990 -  MAUW 960lb and max engine weight 130lb, 50-100hp  

2001 -  MAUW 1100lb, 200lb installed powerplant weight, 100hp max.

The 2001 models onwards are specified with one flap setting of 16 deg only vs. the earlier +15/+30 deg flap extensions.

Although Zenair never revised the flaps extended speeds, CZAW did when certifying them under BCAR 'S' rules for Vfe = 55kt

Ralph

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Permalink Reply by Chris Streat on April 11, 2013 at 1:33pm

Thanks Ralf thats exactly what I wanted to know

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Permalink Reply by Chris Streat on April 15, 2013 at 3:07pm

Shafid blogged to Zenair forum on 2 Nov 2011 can only get 2600RPM full throttle for take off on 1997 Jabiru and on 26 Jan 2012 posted for information on UL260i to replace the 1997 Jabiru and 2 Oct 2010 Prop broken

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Permalink Reply by Chris Streat on April 11, 2013 at 2:03pm

I have been given a reasonable explanation that the yellow arc low point of 62kt in the 2006 CH701 manual I looked at was wrong and that the following applies:

" maneuvering speed is marked on the panel. If you look in the manual at the speed limitation on the page above airspeed indicator markings it states VNO is 78 KTS.That is the start of the yellow line."

A direct reading of the manual has the green and yellow arcs overlapping from 62kt to 78k. I attach photo of manual. It is acceptable on most aircraft to have smooth airspeed limitation in green and yellow arc provided a separate placard in place for VA maneuvering speed. Wikipedia have good article on airspeed placards at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds . A prudent person might make their yellow arc go down to 62kt so that itinerant pilots dont overspeed while manouvering, while more experienced pilots in type understand they can smooth air to 78Kt.

Attachments:

• KHA Airspeed placards.pdf, 186 KB

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Permalink Reply by Ralph Sanson on April 11, 2013 at 5:56pm

I had a lot of difficulty understanding the placement of the airspeed markings, and used the Wiki as well to help. There is an article by Chris Heintz dated June 2009. On mine the green arc changes to yellow at the Vno speed and that yellow arc is terminated with a red radial line at vne. only the white arc is overlapping some of the green. If I take the asi out I will add a yellow radial line at Va the design manouvering speed 62 kts, as described in the article.

Your attachment is from  a copy of a CZAW manual, for the 1100lb rev-4 plans version (serial numbers after 7-4511) but I think the airframe you were applying it to had a serial of 7-2026  so unless the rev-4 plans were incorporated in the build (there is over 40 parts different) those numbers are not the same.

However, being a lightweight, with a light engine, it probably takes a similar payload and performs better than the 'SP' or 'fat ultralight' version

This article is a very good read for what to look for on the 701

http://www.acomodata.com/zenair701/index.htm

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Permalink Reply by Randy Cross on April 9, 2013 at 9:55am

Rotax = Bulletproof....

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Permalink Reply by Deane Philip on April 14, 2013 at 5:33pm

Chris from what I understand the owner Shafid Khan flies this machine all over New Zealand north and south and accross the cook straight all you need to do is look at his pictures he is own this site also through the 701 community in NZ i learned he also regularly services and does maintenance on the Jabiru which I would think is just common sense if you fly a older Jabiru. I understand he has always maintained it to the highest of standards more so than anyone one else I have heard that own Jabiru. as for his price I believe is about 46k buy now NZD that is a great price for such a well built plane that is flying at that price you could repower in the future with 912uls and still  have a machine under market value. you find me a well built 701 with a 912uls in NZ for under 80-100k if you can buy it I went to the states to buy mine hunted for a long time went there personally and flew it then broke it down and shipped it home buy the time you do all that you will still be spending a lot more than 46k and a 750 complete will not fit in a 20 foot container the 701 wings off tail and elevator off fits with about 100mm clearance depending on where in the states it is it will cost between 6 and 16k to ship a 20ft container as for a 40foot who knows then customs maf then CAA and man have the CAA prices gone up doubled since I did mine and that was several thousand so I would think much less hassel to repower a well built one here than try to import, I went to the states because people just do not sell them here very often as they are way to much fun

regards

Deane (ZK-JUG) 

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Permalink Reply by Chris Streat on April 14, 2013 at 6:35pm

Hi Deane, Thanks for your importing experience on 701 in particular. I've imported 23m span motor glider in its trailer from East Coast USA cost about $10k in 2006 as roll on roll off cargo. A possible way to import a Zenair to NZ would be have a trailer built for' roll on roll off export from USA. Someone advised me the old 1997 jabirus can have the cooling fins updated too assist cooling and other improvements to assist their unreliability. Would CAA first of type certificate required for 750 and 801? I haven't checked the register

Regards

Chris Streat.

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Permalink Reply by Deane Philip on April 14, 2013 at 10:25pm

to my knowledge there is no 750 or 801 in NZ so yes first of would be required

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Collins on April 15, 2013 at 2:35am

I agree with the guts of what your saying Dean, my thoughts are that Shafid has proven that KHA is a reliable machine, due solely to his preventive maintainance, And it has payed off for him in reliability. I think the value for money comes down to how much more life you may get out of the Jab before having to re engine. And thats some thing no one can predict.I guess if i was in the market for a 701 right now I might take a punt on it knowing that i might have to re engine reasonably soon - heck you would get to fly home though, thats always a buzz.

As a footnote i am always impressed with how the 701 shrugs off turbulence, On the way home yesterday I got a shit kicking in the back of Mt Peel, just slowed up and let the plane deal with it, very confidence inspiring. Cheers Colly.

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Permalink Reply by Deane Philip on April 15, 2013 at 3:06am

yes they handle heaps I got smacked in a 20 to 25knt norwester just slowed down and let the 701 ride it out what a plane it is
the

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